{"id":10524,"date":"2026-04-26T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2026-04-26T12:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/musictechohio.online\/site\/the-making-of-the-magic-number-by-de-la-soul-141870\/"},"modified":"2026-04-26T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2026-04-26T12:00:00","slug":"the-making-of-the-magic-number-by-de-la-soul-141870","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/musictechohio.online\/site\/the-making-of-the-magic-number-by-de-la-soul-141870\/","title":{"rendered":"\u201cWe just saw things in a different way\u201d \u2013 The Making Of \u201cThe Magic Number\u201d, by De La Soul"},"content":{"rendered":"
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Originally published in Uncut Take\u00a0232 (September 2016 issue)…<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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Originally published in Uncut Take\u00a0232 (September 2016 issue)\u2026<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n

\u201cWe were all walking through Macy\u2019s to a local mall,\u201d remembers MC and producer Dave Jolicoeur, \u201cand I saw a Mickey-Mouse T-shirt with a big daisy on it. It just looked great, and I was like, \u2018How could I incorporate something that looks so cool to me into what we\u2019re doing? What could daisy mean and be really cool?\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n

With that revelation, Dave (then known as Trugoy) invented the \u2018DAISY Age\u2019 \u2013 \u2018Da Inner Sound, Y\u2019All\u2019 \u2013 the concept that would embody De La Soul\u2019s intelligent, sensitive lyrics, colourful style and sly humour. It would also quickly lead to them being labelled \u201cthe hippies of hip-hop\u201d, a term they hated.<\/p>\n

\u201cAt that time it was all about challenging yourself to be different,\u201d says producer Maseo. \u201cRun-DMC wasn\u2019t the Beastie Boys, LL wasn\u2019t Rakim, Rakim wasn\u2019t Big Daddy Kane, Public Enemy wasn\u2019t De La. Everybody was different.\u201d<\/p>\n

While the likes of Public Enemy and NWA took a harder, more streetwise approach to their sound, Pos, Maseo and Dave, who had grown up in similarly tough environments, sampled children\u2019s TV and rapped about their unbreakable friendship and railed against hip-hop conformity on infectious tracks such as \u201cMe, Myself And I\u201d and \u201cThe Magic Number\u201d. The end result was their classic debut 3 Feet High And Rising, co-produced by fellow Long Island DJ Prince Paul.<\/p>\n

\u201cWe realised that there were no boundaries with it,\u201d says rapper Pos aka Posdnuos. \u201cWe could hear Chicago\u2019s \u2018Saturday In The Park\u2019 on the radio and realise, \u2018Hey, this is a great record\u2019 \u2013 all it needs is a beat that\u2019s kind of accepted within a hip-hop realm to make it work.\u201d<\/p>\n

\u201cWe wasn\u2019t high that much at that time,\u201d says Dave, \u201cbut I think we were just kids who saw things a different way. We were obviously eyes wide open.\u201d<\/p>\n

KEY PLAYERS<\/strong><\/p>\n

    \n
  • Kelvin Mercer (Pos) Vocals, production<\/li>\n
  • David Jude Jolicoeur (Dave) Vocals, production<\/li>\n
  • Vincent Mason (Maseo) Production<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n
    \n
    \n
    <\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/figure>\n

    DAVE:<\/strong> We must have demoed \u201cThe Magic Number\u201d no later than \u201986. At that time we were in Long Island \u2013 I had probably just graduated from high school [Amityville Memorial] and Pos and Mase were still in school. I used to go to Pos\u2019s house after school and write concepts and talk about music and hip-hop and ideas.<\/p>\n

    MASEO:<\/strong> I came to Long Island in 1984 as a DJ. I met Prince Paul around the neighbourhood at different backyard parties, and parties at a centre called the Dugout. I actually talk about the Dugout on [1991\u2019s] \u201cRing Ring Ring\u201d: \u201cparty at the Dugout on Dixon Ave\/Haven\u2019t been to the jam in quite a while\u201d. When Paul was in town he used to come to all the parties and get on the turntables for 10 or 15 minutes. He was a battle DJ, not only a producer. He wasn\u2019t much of a party DJ like he is today \u2013 back then he was into tricks. We became friends, and Paul and I put a demo together of a guy in our neighbourhood, Eric, who called himself Gangster B. But privately, since 1985, me, Pos and Dave had been working on music. Nobody knew they were MCs.<\/p>\n

    DAVE:<\/strong> At that time, a lot of hip-hop solo artists were braggers and boasters, lyricists who talked about how good they were and were up for any battle. Those were things that we loved and respected, \u2019cause it was hip-hop, it was happening and it was amazing. But for us it was a little different to how we planned on approaching it.<\/p>\n

    POS:<\/strong> I was born in The Bronx, and Dave and Mase came from Brooklyn. We still knew that struggle, still knew the pain of being stopped by police because we were black, so nothing that NWA were saying was foreign or alien to us. It\u2019s just that we chose not to express ourselves as De La Soul like that. Even Mase, who could be very honest about his early dealings in the streets and what he saw in Brooklyn and what he needed to do to support his family, he just chose that that wouldn\u2019t be the element that he talked about in De La Soul. But we were always very familiar with it, and we could relate to it.<\/p>\n

    DAVE:<\/strong> Absolutely \u2013 we didn\u2019t live in any fancy neighbourhoods, our friends were good students as well as kids on a corner selling drugs. We could\u2019ve touched on a lot of those things, but we wanted a different perspective. We kinda approached those subjects in a different way, like \u201cMy Brother\u2019s A Basehead\u2019 or \u201cMillie Pulled A Pistol On Santa\u201d. We felt comfortable doing that stuff \u2019cause it felt like that\u2019s who we were \u2013 interesting, humorous young kids having a good time.<\/p>\n

    POS:<\/strong> Unfortunately people think \u2018the MCs, they rhyme, and maybe the DJ or whoever else produced\u2019, but the quite honest truth is that we all produced. We all participated, and we all nourished each other\u2019s ideas. What was really great about Paul is that he made sure that everyone was allowed to express themselves on the records.<\/p>\n

    MASEO:<\/strong> My first love is DJing and producing, [Pos and Dave\u2019s] first love is MCing and producing. Our roles are what we chose, but the dynamics of how we create come from many different places. So it\u2019s not like anybody has a designated position, some cuts on the records are done by Dave, and every now and again over the years I\u2019ve challenged myself lyrically. Every now and again you\u2019ll hear me rap on something. No-one really had a designated role \u2013 an idea can always spark from anyone. We\u2019re in the song-making business, so it\u2019s all about making a great song, whether it\u2019s a hit or not.<\/p>\n

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    \u201cWE\u2019RE IN THE SONG-MAKING BUSINESS. IT\u2019S ALL ABOUT MAKING A GREAT SONG, WHETHER IT\u2019S A HIT, OR NOT.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

    DAVE:<\/strong> We grew up with television. Saturday morning obviously, for any kid, was the highlight of the week, when you\u2019d wake up early and watch all these kiddy shows.<\/p>\n

    POS:<\/strong> Multiplication Rock was one of those great educational commercials that would play in between your favourite Saturday morning cartoons. There were different songs like \u201cThree Is A Magic Number\u201d or \u201cThe Letter A\u201d. My parents purchased the music for us, as a complete set. So later, once we were using music for hip-hop purposes, that set was just the easiest place to go to. It was a great soundtrack to our lives, and therefore a great place to pull from to manipulate in a hip-hop sense. There were also three of us, so it was like \u2018Yo, how about this?\u2019<\/p>\n

    MASEO:<\/strong> It was just an idea that Pos had for so long \u2013 it never really had no lyrics, just had the records.<\/p>\n

    POS:<\/strong> When we came up with \u201cThe Magic Number\u201d, we were working in Mase\u2019s basement. We took the main sample from [Bob Dorough\u2019s] \u201cThree Is A Magic Number\u201d on Multiplication Rock, then took Double Dee and Steinski\u2019s \u201cLesson 3\u201d for the drums [the famed \u201cAmen\u201d break, originally from The Winstons\u2019 \u201cAmen, Brother\u201d].<\/p>\n

    MASEO:<\/strong> We sampled them at my mother\u2019s house, on this little keyboard we had, a Casio SK1. It didn\u2019t even have an input on it so you could get a clear sample, you just had to put it right next to the speaker. So that\u2019s how we were doing pre-production then, before we even knew what pre-production meant! I finally played Prince Paul things we had been working on on a four-track, dubbing cassettes and that. Paul was excited about what he heard, he was just as excited as I was. He was like, \u2018Man, I gotta meet with your guys. I can\u2019t make no promises, but we could definitely go in the studio and clean all of this up and put all this together. I\u2019m gonna do my best to shop for a record deal for you guys.\u2019 I wish I\u2019d had the concept the guys from the South had, which is just to sell your music out of the trunk of your car, I think that was a more lucrative mission! But in the very beginning it was all about trying to get a record deal, because that\u2019s what it seemed like you had to do. How long did it take to record? Probably a day.<\/p>\n

    DAVE:<\/strong> That\u2019s crazy, I feel like we were in the studio forever! Calliope Studios was basically just a loft where the owners had made it really comfortable. It was a big, empty space \u2013 you could fit 100 people in there. It was such a big space, you wanted to invite people over just to fill it up a little bit. And that\u2019s what we did \u2013 there were probably a good 15 to 25 people in there at some points, and we\u2019d be pulling people into the booth and saying, \u2018Hey, go up and say that part.\u2019 There was a big window by the mixing desk \u2013 the view was 36th and Broadway, and you could see the corner and everything going on. Calliope was on something like the 17th floor. So many people would drop by \u2013 sometimes people who you didn\u2019t even know who were going to be somebody. I remember the singer Joe, he used to always be there! Then he becomes this R&B star. It always felt like something special was happening in Calliope.<\/p>\n

    MASEO:<\/strong> Calliope had this S900 sampler by Akai, that was my first introduction to Akai, and that\u2019s what we used on the whole of 3 Feet High And Rising. That was the go-to device for us. We were always kind of relying on the engineer in the studio, because we didn\u2019t really know those machines, but we knew that was the machine that was needed. But this is something I learned early on \u2013 engineers will bullshit just to make their money! They used to pretend that it was so hard and it took forever to catch the loop on the S900. Until one day, Paul got frustrated and he bought an S950. So when Paul bought an S950, I bought an S950 \u2013 and sure enough Paul learnt it, and he taught me some basic stuff. I was like, \u2018Yo, this shit is not hard\u2019, and that\u2019s when we sussed out the engineer. That\u2019s when we said, \u2018OK, we\u2019re not working with certain engineers anymore.\u2019 Prince Paul was the first one who actually let me touch the equipment in a studio too. When we got to Calliope, Paul was like, \u2018Look man, come over here \u2013 Mase, look at this board. It\u2019s a 24-track board, look at every track on this board like the radio in your car. You\u2019ve got bass, mid and highs. There\u2019s other frequencies around that you\u2019ll learn, but here\u2019s your basic frequencies. And there\u2019s your gain, right there. Look at this like 24 radios in your car.\u2019 And I was like, \u2018You couldn\u2019t have made it any more simpler for me to grasp.\u2019 The mixing desk used to look like Chinese letters to me, but then I got it when he pointed it out to me.<\/p>\n

    POS:<\/strong> One of the things that really blew my mind in Calliope was this device called an Eventide Harmoniser, which took different sounds and changed the tones or keys of one of the samples. That helped me present early works like \u201cSay No Go\u201d, where I took a Daryl Hall and John Oates record and changed the key so it worked with Sly & The Family Stone\u2019s \u201cCrossword Puzzle\u201d. On \u201cEye Know\u201d, I took \u201cPeg\u201d by Steely Dan and made it match with The Mad Lads\u2019 \u201cMake This Young Lady Mine\u201d.<\/p>\n

    MASEO:<\/strong> The way we used to do the studio back then was the way we\u2019d be in class \u2013 you\u2019ve gotta come to school with your work! But the way we had things outlined, we always had room for more improvisational stuff, and being able to come up with some weird ideas on the spot.<\/p>\n

    DAVE:<\/strong> \u201cThe Magic Number\u201d came out towards the end of our recording period of 3 Feet High And Rising, I don\u2019t know if it was the very last song but I think it was towards the end of the recording process. We never intended on doing a title track or anything like that, but it really was a nice record that kind of was a manifesto of who we are, a song saying that this unit, Pos, Mase and Dave, is really important. I think how we respect each other\u2019s ears, respect each other\u2019s musical opinions, and just respect each other as friends, you know, this whole thing became something because of that. I think the combination of us three, the way we are, was magical, and the record spoke for itself. There is a double track of my rhymes on there. That was cool \u2013 again to compliment Paul, he liked to try different things. Often mistakes were kept. Maybe we said, \u201cOh, it\u2019s double\u2026\u201d, and Paul would be the first to say, \u201cIt sounds cool double, maybe we should leave it. Anyone mad at that?\u201d It was important to have Prince Paul around for something like \u201cThe Magic Number\u201d.<\/p>\n

    POS:<\/strong> My rhyme honestly was just supposed to be about what I thought about me, and about what I was going through, but also coming together to give off the feeling of being three guys who have this magic bond. I sing first at the top, then I do my rhyme, and then I sing right after myself again, then Dave comes in and does the same thing \u2013 he sings, he rhymes, and he sings at the end when he goes \u201cthree times one, what is it?\u201d. Singing was a very big part of hip-hop at the time \u2013 you would take a disco record or whatever was big at the time, and you would then battle someone and sing the actual R&B verses, but make it work for your name, your crew. So it was really simple to do with \u201cThe Magic Number\u201d.<\/p>\n

    \n

    THE SPONTANEITY IN THE RECORD IS WHAT I\u2019LL ALWAYS REMEMBER.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

    DAVE:<\/strong> One thing that was really amazing about \u201cThe Magic Number\u201d was the end, where all those records were being scratched. It was funny, because it was just a pile of records that we were listening to, and on the spot trying to figure out what was cool to throw in there, from comedy records to cartoons to R\u2019n\u2019B and reggae stuff, just pulling out the next record and saying, \u2018Ok, that sounds good, throw that one there. What\u2019s next?\u2019 That spontaneity in the record is what I\u2019ll always remember.<\/p>\n

    POS:<\/strong> That\u2019s what was great about back then \u2013 we were just so open to anything because we were just so happy to be living our dream and doing what we wanted. We were just really big on not doing what everyone else was doing. I mean, even when you look at some of our later work, when on the scene people were going in a more experimental way, we\u2019d turn around and be more minimalistic in our approach, letting you know the message that we presented. We tried different cadences and different themes that might have been considered light-hearted compared to what was going on. It just kinda naturally felt that way.<\/p>\n

    DAVE:<\/strong> We felt like we were doing good music, but I also know that we sat back and said, \u201cWow, we\u2019re pulling out some cool stuff.\u201d We didn\u2019t know 3 Feet High And Rising was going to be as huge as it was, we weren\u2019t thinking that [i]at all[\/i]. But we definitely were satisfied and proud of what we created.<\/p>\n

    POS:<\/strong> As much as we appreciate and love \u201cMe, Myself And I\u201d, I think we\u2019ve been very vocal about the fact we got tired of it, but \u201cThe Magic Number\u201d really wasn\u2019t a song like that. Funnily enough, we just did a bunch of shows in the UK and Belgium and we do \u201cThe Magic Number\u201d as one of the last songs, and the reaction to it was very fresh and genuine. It\u2019s one of those songs that has always had this great energy and freshness, because it brings everything together at the end, and it means a lot \u2013 three friends who\u2019ve stuck through everything and have been through so many ups and downs, and have maintained what people consider a magic bond. It just means a lot, so it always comes off well when we perform it live.<\/p>\n

    DAVE:<\/strong> We try to recapture that energy, and for a couple of old guys it\u2019s funny, so we do it as best as we can, and it\u2019s humorous and it\u2019s silly. We were just talking about good times, and good messages, a lot of it pointed to yourself. There\u2019s always room to grow, to learn and to acknowledge things.<\/p>\n

    MASEO:<\/strong> The childhood dream became a profession, and we still love it \u2013 that\u2019s really the reality of it all.<\/p>\n

    FACTFILE<\/strong><\/p>\n

    Written by:<\/strong> Prince Paul (Paul Huston), Pos (Kelvin Mercer), Dave (David Jolicoeur), Maseo (Vincent Mason), Bob Dorough
    Recorded at:<\/strong> Calliope Studios, Manhattan, New York
    Producer:<\/strong> Prince Paul, De La Soul
    Personnel:<\/strong> Pos (vocals, production), Dave (vocals, production), Mase (production), Prince Paul (turntables, production)
    Released:<\/strong> March 14, 1989
    Label:<\/strong> Tommy Boy, Warner Bros
    UK\/US chart position:<\/strong> 7\/-<\/p>\n

    TIMELINE<\/strong><\/p>\n

    1985<\/strong>
    On Long Island, Amityville Memorial High School students Pos, Dave and Mase begin demoing their own music<\/p>\n

    1986<\/strong>
    Pos comes up with the idea for combining the chorus of \u201cThree Is A Magic Number\u201d with the \u201cAmen\u201d break<\/p>\n

    Late 1988<\/strong>
    The trio record their debut album, 3 Feet High And Rising, in Manhattan\u2019s Calliope Studios with Amityville DJ and producer Prince Paul<\/p>\n

    December 1989<\/strong>
    \u201cThe Magic Number\u201d is released as a single in the UK and Europe<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

    The post \u201cWe just saw things in a different way\u201d \u2013 The Making Of \u201cThe Magic Number\u201d, by De La Soul<\/a> appeared first on UNCUT<\/a>.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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    Originally published in Uncut Take\u00a0232 (September 2016 issue)… Originally published in Uncut Take\u00a0232 (September 2016 issue)\u2026 \u201cWe were all walking through Macy\u2019s to a local mall,\u201d remembers MC and producer…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[2312,31,35],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-10524","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-de-la-soul","category-features","category-interviews"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/musictechohio.online\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/10524","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/musictechohio.online\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/musictechohio.online\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/musictechohio.online\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/musictechohio.online\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=10524"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/musictechohio.online\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/10524\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/musictechohio.online\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=10524"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/musictechohio.online\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=10524"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/musictechohio.online\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=10524"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}